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Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:02 pm
by Ulmdorgr
Yeah I agree, you can't be sure about chems, however I don't think they're any worse if they're pure (in some cases they are better, but it's obviously going to be a different experience). I'm a big fan of Timothy Leary, Richard Alpert, Albert Hofmann, and Aldous Huxley, who all dealt with the REAL pure stuff.

I would like to try toxic entheogens if I had a good shaman, but not many people dabble in them.

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:12 pm
by nothim
what is a toxic entheogen?

is it the natural entheogen as a form of a copy of it made chemicaly in a lab from powders?

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:15 pm
by Ulmdorgr
An entheogen is a plant with psychoactive principals that has a long history of use (usually in shamanic or healing traditions).

A toxic entheogen, then, is an entheogen that is poisonous or dangerous. These include ayahuasca, iboga, amanitas muscaria, datura, henbane, and others.

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:24 pm
by nothim
awaken the devine within-----it is a film-----

i think entheogen = encounter God through these rare plants which are called entheogens
all of them with teh capaility of doing that .


toxic entheogen --- never heard of the expression, but i would put it in a chemical man made atemption to replicate the natural occuring entheogen with failure ofcourse-----

heve to read more about this --- but definetly entheogen is encounter with God - is from latin or greek , cant remember .......

i am looking for a link to the film

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:26 pm
by nothim
http://www.entheogen.tv/

i am not sure if the film is here too,

btw--- in us , imax are with chairs moving and water and mist everywhere or is just normal watching?

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:37 pm
by Ulmdorgr
An entheogen = a hallucinogen that has been used for a long time. It's that simple.

I'm not trying to say "toxic entheogen" is an official term. Toxic is just an adjective. I could have said "poisonous entheogen", or just "dangerous entheogen."

IMAX doesn't have the extra stuff. Only special theatres, like in theme parks like Disney Land or something, do they have stuff like that.

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:50 pm
by nothim
respect for the translation of the seeking the stone video, did not want to post there , to interrupt your work....

how do you know in English when to put a double letter to a word, is it because you hear the word that it needs a double letter or is just learned, like, this is like it should be?

for example this one: interrupt ----i had to google to see if it is with a r or with rr

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:33 am
by unstable
Ulmdorgr wrote:An entheogen is a plant with psychoactive principals that has a long history of use (usually in shamanic or healing traditions).

A toxic entheogen, then, is an entheogen that is poisonous or dangerous. These include ayahuasca, iboga, amanitas muscaria, datura, henbane, and others.


Ulmdorgr-
What makes something such as ayahuasca any more toxic, poisonous or dangerous than salvia? Naturally I would agree, from what I have read, that ayahuasca causing "the purge" kind of says that the body doesn't like it. I would hold that the same is true for smoking salvia and it causing you to cough...

As far as I know, ayahuasca doesn't have harmful physiological effects, any moreso than salvia...but I could be wrong. I am not familiar with the others that you stated.

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:26 am
by Ulmdorgr
@ Unstable: Oh I haven't done any pharmacological studies on anything other than Salvinorin A and Cannabis at the moment, so I couldn't tell you. =/

This is the only thing I can base my assumptions off of for iboga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA-NNl_UGsI#t=0m55s I don't know if ayahuasca has toxic properties other than the puking (psilocybin does the same thing but it's not poisonous).

The other plants I listed are definitely toxic.

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:56 pm
by SF
Ulmdorgr wrote:I think DMT in the pineal gland was just a theory. Plus, if it's in your blood, you don't need a MAOI, because you're not ingesting it.


I think you might be wrong.

"DMT is created in small amounts by the human body during normal metabolism[1] by the enzyme tryptamine-N-methyltransferase."

"The source of DMT in the human body has not been identified, but Dr. Strassman believes that it is made primarily by the pineal gland."
Source(s):http://www.lightparty.com/Health/SpiritMolecule.html


MAOI will slow if not temporarily keep chemicals from breaking down in your body(strengthens natural levels). Just like our brains produce Serotonin, some people used to take ( some still do) SSRI this will raise the levels of the chemical in your brain, once your brain tries to adapt to this flood of huge amounts of Serotonin it will stop producing as much to counter the effect.

This is the same with MAOI, People use to and some still take MAOI to treat depression because it will keep the brain chemicals stable at a peek level.

so the answer is yes Ayahuasca will work with out the presence of dmt.

You can go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca
QUOTE "Brews can also be made with no DMT-containing plants; Psychotria viridis being substituted by plants such as Justicia pectoralis, Brugmansia, or sacred tobacco, also known as Mapacho (Nicotiana rustica), or sometimes left out with no replacement. The potency of this brew varies radically from one batch to the next, both in potency and psychoactive effect, based mainly on the skill of the shaman or brewer, as well as other admixtures sometimes added and the intent of the ceremony"

Sometimes The vine is the only plant used. I have heard that you can obtain visions from just the vine alone if enough is consumed, but traditionally they say that the chacruna (aka viridis or others) were sometimes added to make the visions more powerful and bright. Also i hear that caapi is so different from strain to strain that is why shamans stick to one strain and that is the only caapi strain they ever use.

I also want to add drinking Ayahuasca with or without chacruna has be documented to also raise other chemicals in the brain. If i am correct i believe that when levels are altered in the brain in any way it would effect many things, maybe cause visions who knows.

People that have been tested after Ayahuasca sessions were shown to have very high levels of serotonin.

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:01 pm
by SF
Salvia divinorum is generally understood to be of low toxicity (high LD50)

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:14 pm
by jasonsalvia
SF how many fresh leaves did you chew? no swallowing right? I've only smoked thus far

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:54 pm
by Ulmdorgr
If you can elucidate your sensitivity to salvinorin A, you can better predict your chewed dose.

From sagewisdom: "count out 8 to 28 large whole dried leaves. Place the leaves in a small bowl of cool water for 10 minutes. Once the leaves are wet and have been soaking for about 10 minutes, remove the leaves from the water, squeeze the excess water out of them, and ball them up into a quid. Some people skip this soaking step when they are in a hurry, but chewing on brittle dry leaves may be unpleasant."

The taste is half the experience =)

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:12 am
by nothim
when they are in a hurry


i like that how i ended up in the phrase...

funny :)

the small miracle fruit trees i messed with are in the recovery , and they have sprouts, both of them , i thought i lost them for good, kick ass luck, and i am happy that the best jasmines types i have, show signs of life too, ... plenty of work with them here!!!!

Re: Salvia Divinorum Quid Method

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:29 pm
by jasonsalvia
Ulmdorgr wrote:If you can elucidate your sensitivity to salvinorin A, you can better predict your chewed dose.

From sagewisdom: "count out 8 to 28 large whole dried leaves. Place the leaves in a small bowl of cool water for 10 minutes. Once the leaves are wet and have been soaking for about 10 minutes, remove the leaves from the water, squeeze the excess water out of them, and ball them up into a quid. Some people skip this soaking step when they are in a hurry, but chewing on brittle dry leaves may be unpleasant."

The taste is half the experience =)


Thanks, will start low and work my way up