Curious on extracts.

The different ways to consume/use Salvia divinorum and other entheogens, personal rituals, and trip reports.

Curious on extracts.

Postby unstable » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:33 am

Not that I have any intention of ever doing this, I'm mainly curious on the process...does anyone have information on how the salvinorin A is extracted from the leaves?
...She said all energy is only borrowed, and one day you have to give it back.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby nothim » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:14 pm

dry leaves powdered to a fine powder, 99 % isopropanol and naptha.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/sal ... ion4.shtml

I am not for man made products........

Leave it natural!!!!!
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby Ulmdorgr » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:03 pm

Here's another one. http://imageevent.com/sphere/salvinorin ... 12.tiger_s

Scroll to the bottom for some really cool pictures.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby unstable » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:03 pm

Nice links! I read through both of those pages. I was mainly curious on where the whole "5x extract" stuff that's sold in head-shops comes from. I didn't know so much work went into creating a single tincture of salvia.

When I first began considering salvia, researching it...I wanted to use the traditional quid method, because that it what the Mazatechs did. Aside from that, I have asthma and I'm not super-keen on smoking anything. So I ended up buying a tincture from Siebert...I took it very slow, beginning with a single dose. The next time I upped the dose...before I knew it, the tincture was gone and I didn't feel that anything had happened. I purchased a bigger tincture from Siebert and staggered the doses and had some mild effects. What was left of the tincture I shared with a friend before I participated in a sweat-lodge.
...She said all energy is only borrowed, and one day you have to give it back.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby Ulmdorgr » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:30 pm

So how was the tincture? I've heard that it can be painful, holding it for so long. Or maybe it didn't work because you didn't hold it in for very long?

In this trip: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=57297 the guys says "Damn this FUCKING SHIT BURNS but I manage to hold it in . . . This sucks, as saliva is pouring into my mouth and it’s all I can do not to gag and throwup much less not swallow."
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby SF » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:05 am

From what i hear. All the reports i have read. Say that the tinctures are to strong alcohol content you have to add some water to it. by adding water it will make the tincture less effective depending on the amount you add.

Besides the tincture is not that effective anyways. I dont understand why they dont just extract the leave with something like everclear then make a 5x or 10x out of it only using ever clear. Dry it out and use that as a quid.

wouldnt that be better ? no water no alcohol, small amount of leaf,.

sounds better to me but who knows.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby Ulmdorgr » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:18 am

Salvinorin A isn't water soluble, so water won't diminish its content; however I read in that Erowid extraction guide that washing leaves may reduce the amount of Salvinorin A (for an unknown reason, something can help it slip off).

Tincture is the same thing as the quid, you're just working with less (or no) plant material. Also, in the trip log I posted previously, the guy took 6 drops of tincture (who knows the concentration), and then took two hits of 20x extract. By mixing the two, he turned a 4 minute trip into a 45 minute one.

As far as the extraction process goes, the point is to remove plant material, so how would you "dry it out and use that as a quid" when there's no plant material? SF, they use alcohol in the first steps - isopropyl.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby unstable » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:16 am

Ulmdorgr wrote:So how was the tincture? I've heard that it can be painful, holding it for so long. Or maybe it didn't work because you didn't hold it in for very long?

In this trip: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=57297 the guys says "Damn this FUCKING SHIT BURNS but I manage to hold it in . . . This sucks, as saliva is pouring into my mouth and it’s all I can do not to gag and throwup much less not swallow."


If I'm remembering correctly, initially the tincture burned quite a bit, but after a short time the pain subsided, I think mostly because the nerve endings had been destroyed. :D It does leave a painful reminder for several days after administration. The taste was neither appetizing nor utterly repulsive. I didn't feel the urge to gag or throwup and I did swallow the alcohol/salvia tincture between doses. I can't remember the most that I ever took...it was at least 4 droppers full in succession...the results were, very mild to say the least. The biggest drawback to the tincture method (for me) is the amount of saliva that was produced in my mouth because of the irration that the alcohol called.

I have not tried any other approach but I would not really recommend the tincture method for the following reasons:

-least effective
-most expensive
-quite uncomfortable
-inconvenient

I wanted to sit and meditate and have salvia help me along a little...so here I am sitting, with a mouthful of alcohol that is burning...I have to wait several minutes before I can put another dropper-full of the tincture into my mouth...I'm not supposed to swallow the saliva / alcohol...Just uncomfortable and awkward.

@ SF
The instructions I received with the tinctures from Siebert recommended diluting with water for first time users...I did not dilute with water at first. On later attempts with the tincture I did dilute a dose or two and it makes it less painful for sure. It's not a matter of diluting the salvinorin but cutting the alcohol.

On using an extract without alcohol as a quid
I like that idea! I wonder how well it would work. I was under the impression that the alcohol facilitated the absorbtion of the salvinorin into the mouth.

Another thing that I emailed Siebert about and he never responded was using Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO). I recently read something where someone else proposed doing this. If you are not familiar with DMSO, it's a solvent that "has a distinctive property of penetrating the skin very readily...and can carry other compounds into a biological system". So for example if you've got inflammation in knee, you could disolve some NSAIDS into some DMSO and apply it directly to your knee rather than saturating your bloodstream with NSAIDS.
Only thing is you have to be extremely careful when you're using DMSO because you could easily introduce some nasty stuff into your body.

In any case, I kind of figured for anyone who was *really* an innovator, they'd mix up an extract with some DMSO and swish that around in their mouth...or you could rub it on your feet or your neck near your arteries.
...She said all energy is only borrowed, and one day you have to give it back.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby nothim » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:45 am

as a suppository method, analy!!!!!! but I have to study on how to make the solution and mix it .....how sick ............
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby unstable » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:12 am

boolie2010 wrote:as a suppository method, analy!!!!!! but I have to study on how to make the solution and mix it .....how sick ............



Yeah I don't think it would be very popular here in the United States bro.
...She said all energy is only borrowed, and one day you have to give it back.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby nothim » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:35 am

lol who cares as long it is safe and no stress on the taste either......

got your point.....

not so funny , i did not know though that americans do not taste this kind of jokes .......

sorry ......... my mistake, but is real anyway, a us girl posted something similar done with dmt......

peace,

j.k.

lol
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby unstable » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:11 am

I got the humor, I tried to spin it back in your direction.
I think I would prefer not to put it in my butt though...
And between you and I...it takes a special girl.
...She said all energy is only borrowed, and one day you have to give it back.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby nothim » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:16 pm

it takes a special girl.


I am a hardhead, do not get this, translate please as for someone who is not native english speaker ......

lol

p.s. do you know korn band or deftones?
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby SF » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:36 pm

Ulmdorgr wrote:Salvinorin A isn't water soluble, so water won't diminish its content; however I read in that Erowid extraction guide that washing leaves may reduce the amount of Salvinorin A (for an unknown reason, something can help it slip off).

Tincture is the same thing as the quid, you're just working with less (or no) plant material. Also, in the trip log I posted previously, the guy took 6 drops of tincture (who knows the concentration), and then took two hits of 20x extract. By mixing the two, he turned a 4 minute trip into a 45 minute one.

As far as the extraction process goes, the point is to remove plant material, so how would you "dry it out and use that as a quid" when there's no plant material? SF, they use alcohol in the first steps - isopropyl.


Yes your right salvia is not water soluble. What i was saying is, if you add water to your tincture and then use it in your mouth the water will broke the salvia from entering your mouths pours, Making salvia Tincture less effective.

Now as for the quid method. I didnt mean a crystal extract as a quid. I meant a 10x extract which is 10 grams of leaves extracted and then added to one unaltered gram of salvia leaves.

they say the reason for the extra gram is for extra potency do to a slight loss in the extraction process.

i think it would work. But i would only use everclear to extract the salvia. meaning no washing it at all.
keeps it natural and less harmful besides your putting it in your mouth i think its a bit more risky then smoking it.

by risky i mean some of the extracts have been made with unnatural chemicals and whatnot.
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Re: Curious on extracts.

Postby SF » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:29 am

yes that is one way of putting it. I am against smoking extracts unless you only want to do small amounts. As for deep meditations and dreaming states of consciousness i would recommend quid method..
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