Salviahusca Method

[SF]

I have heard of people using the Banisteriopsis Caapi Vine in a brew while adding Salvia Divinorum Leaves.
I wonder if this would mean you wont have to use a ton of leaves to get the desired effects.

Has anyone tried this?

[DanG]

I haven't heard about that SF.
I've read some people will chew Salvia after taking ayahuasca but never at the same time.
I wonder how they'll mix scientifically and spiritually...

But if you have a kilo worth of Salvia leaves and you boiled them in water like Ayahuasca then that would be potent stuff!
No need for MAOI's
I could be wrong though, i'll have to try this out sometime..

[Ulmdorgr]

Large doses of salvinorin A will probably take over whatever else you're ingesting, because it roughly shuts down your brain (this is my analysis of things; I do not understand how stimulation of k opioid receptors can justify such effects; I hope someone does). However, since it is metabolized so quickly, if you've consumed another chemical, that chemical's effects will probably kick back in as salvinorin A disappears.

[DanG]

so it's more of a transition between two different chemicals am i correct?
It'll be like speed dating wherein your dates will be machine elves to tigers to unknown entities

[Ulmdorgr]

Sorry, I was in a rush when I made that last post (I thought SF was talking about mixing DMT with salvinorin A).

The topic here is basically mixing salvinorin A with a MAOI (harmine, etc. from B. Caapi). This is usually extremely dangerous, based on the toxicity of the chemical you are ingesting. If you were to do this, I would NOT smoke salvia (you would probably just black out for who knows how long). Quid method + a MAOI could be safe, but who knows. I'm guessing, based on salvinorin A's toxicity, that it would be safe to experiment with low doses. Like, take a specific dose of a MAOI, then eat like 4 leaves of salvinorin A. I'm also guessing that consuming a MAOI would then allow salvinorin A to absorb through the gut (usually MAO breaks down chemicals), however it would also decrease or completely inhibit any metabolic processes that would normally occur. Basically, intensity and duration would increase by an unknown factor. This may be the answer, boys, to tripping comfortably at a high intensity for large periods of time. But, that's also a nightmare I am not ready to dive into. I would have to start with just a few leaves (like 5-10mg). Remember, quids can go from like, 50-200mg (comfortable smoked doses are ~1-5mg).

[DanG]

i am so bad at chemistry. But i get your point. Two chemicals might not be dangerous if taken separately but if mixed then who knows?

Anyway are you suggesting that MAOI's can bring out the best of a small dose Salvia? Am i getting you correctly?

[Ulmdorgr]

MAOIs work by disabling your body's ability to metabolize things normally (MAOs are a family of enzymes that exist within every cell in your body). This means that chemicals remain in your body (blood/cells) for longer than normal.

I theorize that an MAOI with a low dose of salvinorin A (hopefully safe; no guarantees here!) could result in the following:

• Salvinorin A may now be orally active (unless it gets broken down by stomach acid).
• Duration increase. If smoked, this means that the entire duration (come up, peak/plateau, and decline) will last longer. Who knows by what factor.
• Intensity increase. If the chemicals do not begin metabolization upon consumption, as they normally do, then the entire dose will have a better chance of reaching receptors. Normally the dose begins to metabolize, upon ingestion, slowly reducing intensity over time, but this won't happen if the MAOI's effects are under way.

[DanG]

That makes sense ulmy! Thanks

To whom it may concern:
I've been reading MAOI's last night. There's also a need for a special diet within 24 hours of consumption.
Fresh foods, not canned, cheese etc... They say some foods have bad reactions with MAOI's so be careful!
Do some research before consuming anything that you don't know about!

[Ulmdorgr]

Also, be wary of MAOIs. If you're using any other medications, or if you have an emergency, it may cause problems (sitters need to be educated).

I've heard if you're on a MAOI and you want to use certain chemicals, it's best to stop using it 2 weeks prior, and then wait 1 week before starting to take MAOIs again after consuming your chemicals of choice.

[SF]

Yes monoamino oxidase inhibitors are very dangerous if used the wrong way. However i have read that B. Caapi is the most mild and forgiving of all the maoi's in the plant world, or shall i say the Scientifically known plant world.

All of my caapi plants are very small and it might even take years to get enough just to try this.
On the other hand i do not know if i would want to try this at all. I just thought the idea would be interesting.
Maybe more research is needed to find out the safely and dosage methods.

Everything that we consume can be classified as a Food, Medicine And Poison but it all just depends on the dosages.
..Agreed?

[Ulmdorgr]

"mild" - I dare you to make ayahuasca with just B. Caapi and find out what happens. If you don't get sick, then I guess the nausea may be due to the other plant used in the concoction (remember, conclusions made from doing experiments on yourself cannot be applied to other people because of biological differences).

Also, some things are "poisons" regardless of dose (such as heavy metals, radioactive material, caustic chemicals like strong acids and bases, things that react easily, etc.).

[ChemistKen]

You do have to be careful with MAOI's because the inhibition of MAO enzymes does impare your bodies ability to breakdown various chemicals. However do remember that some prescription medication contains MAOI's.

And foods such as cheese, wines, fish as well as some beef, and many others contain compounds such as biogenic amines which can get you quite sick if your body is inhibited from breaking them down(MAO enzymes are responsible for breaking them down).

As always you can trust me as I am your resident chemist, ask me any questions that you need to.

[RocketeerJim]

I think this MAOI/SD combination is worth looking into. It would be interesting to extend the smoked SD experience.

[Ulmdorgr]

Actually, it wouldn't do anything because Salvinorin A contains no amines. Forgot about that...

[nivkbecjer]

yes it contains no amines, but it does have an influence on dopAMINE metabolism in the brain, which is part of it's action, so it's not impossible that there would be a potentiation effect. The only reference to this i have found in the literature is in Ott's review from 1994 (forget the title off hand) where he mentions of anonymous source "...chewing 6g of Peganum harmala L. seeds with 45 half-dried (S. divinorum) leaves, reporting an eight-hour experience..."