fallen leaves, advise for newbie

The different ways to consume/use Salvia divinorum and other entheogens, personal rituals, and trip reports.

Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby ChemistKen » Mon May 31, 2010 4:34 pm

Well I can tell you that even with hookah, inhaling and holding for 20-30secs will cause your vision to "vibrate" if thats what they are talking about. I myself have not smoked salvia yet so I wouldn't be able to comment on exactly what their experience was...
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby ChemistKen » Mon May 31, 2010 4:38 pm

However I should comment that although absorption of chemicals like salvinorin A are rapid, the longer you give them to be absorbed the more intense experience you will likely have, especially on a deep hit.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby RocketeerJim » Mon May 31, 2010 4:41 pm

Well I haven't done the math but it seems that if a dose of only 300 micrograms will do the trick, and we smoke, what, 1/50 of a gram or 20 milligrams of the material, there is a whole lot more in the hit than we need even with 10X. Am I correct here?
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Mon May 31, 2010 6:31 pm

I doubt you are loading 20mg (0.02g) of salvia; you can count the number of flakes with that much; you must have a really good scale. 0.05-0.20g looks like a small pile that can fit on top of a penny.

Ken, any vibration that I'm talking about is like the big brother of any cigarette or shisha high (I get that too, where I have to back off of the tube cuz my brain is all fuzzy). I've fainted before and I sometimes black out when I stand up; the cig/hookah highs are sort of like that. The vibrations I'm talking about are like how I described them before: oscillating onion skins. Every experience is somewhat unique. On my first, the vibrations took the form of a falling sensation; as if being picked up 3 inches and dropped every .5 seconds (very intense, it got my adrenaline going like a roller coaster). At the same time I had a visual that I've never had since: imagine a coating of water over everything you see. It's clear, so you can't see the membrane (potentially this could be something to do with salvinorin in the eye, which I don't think has been studied). Now, everything is generating light or sound waves that move the clear membrane. I basically had a light-based version of cymatics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaYvYysQvBU

Note: this effect is not desired, as it indicates that you are in the lower plateaus (still grounded in collective reality).

Also: ego death is very pleasurable, and is the primary reason to use salvia (to destroy your attachments to this world).

If you're going to be using it again, I recommend that you video tape yourself (for your eyes only) so you can analyze any sounds made, or identify any images seen (surfaces, images, or people you may have looked at). Also keep a note pad at hand to reflect immediately after the trip.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby RocketeerJim » Mon May 31, 2010 8:41 pm

No, I doubt I'm using 20 mg either. I was only using that amount to illustrate the point. I estimate my first experience was on 100 mg of Salvia Max 20X as I placed approx 1/2 of a 1/5gram package into my small pipe bowl.

I looked at the Cymatics vid and I can see a resemblence in the water section - what was it 125hz?

I agree I should both video and take notes. Excellent suggestions.

I gather I was definitely in cognitive mode because I made the choice to move away from the vortex and then actually got up and moved to another room.

So to experience the ego death, assuming the proper dose, I need to pass through the vortex into the black void beyond?
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:46 am

Pretty much. If you still feel fear, you're not there yet =)

At more intense highs, you won't be able to recognize your surroundings until they evaporate altogether... I've never really had a black hole like you have, but I definitely understand the point of interest. Good luck!

I think I'm going to put up a sticky about the more specific pharmacological/physiological effects.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby RocketeerJim » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:18 am

Yes, such a sticky would be very interesting.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby jasonsalvia » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:09 am

Ulmdorgr wrote:Very nice! Yes, bong rips of salvia are the only way to trip effectively. If you're busy loading multiple bowls, the effects are already wearing off.

My friends get the terminology incorrect, so I've been using it wrong as well lately. You are right. A regular bong has no percs, but still runs the smoke through water (thus, some consider that to be the first perc). Since yours has a separate chamber, it has one real perc, but could be considered a double perc (smoke through the bottom water, then up through the first real perc).

Cool nonetheless. What was the price of yours?

Still using red level?

I have had very little open eye visuals occur, besides the gravitational swirl or liquidized vision with electric vibrations. Nothing color or light intensity related.


35 Bucks at the local head shop down the street. Yup gonna hang with the red for now. I'm looking for an extension for the bong to make it longer, the smoke goes right into my eyes when lighting... having trouble finding an 'acrylic bong extension piece', if it even exists.

Yes, typically immediately after I smoke, I wear my eye covers and lay down on the couch face up. I usually see many colorful fragmented pieces (2d not 3d) that are all sliding down to the right (its a pulling sensation), this is how it typically starts. Later images can form out of the many fragmented pieces or the fragments dance about it. It's a real experience with this salvia man...
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby jasonsalvia » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:11 am

PS with the bong last night I tried to smoke blue lotus. Now I experienced the blue lotus phenomena, was an interesting sleep...
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:06 am

What's the blue lotus phenomena? Can you give us a link?

And yeah, the initial visuals are 2D, then they turn 3D or 3D+ (objects can move through one another).
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby jasonsalvia » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:27 am

Ulmdorgr wrote:What's the blue lotus phenomena? Can you give us a link?

And yeah, the initial visuals are 2D, then they turn 3D or 3D+ (objects can move through one another).


http://www.bluelotus-info.com/effects.html

If your looking for greater detail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFca1caA8Cc

Nothing mind blowing like Salvia. But I experienced calmness and warmth in certain body parts. During my sleep I felt distinctly 'out of it', going in out of weird states (almost like taking Nyquil). To be fair, I also mixed in about 15% MJ to the mix. They seem to go together nicely, according to various reports on Erowid.

First time, I steeped 10 grams in red wine for 2 days. Drank the wine, was pleasant but too subtle. This last time I used the new bong and felt it stronger...

I also tried to grow the blue lotus from seeds, which is like growing a water lily. But failed.... I don't think it was hot enough at the time. Wish I could cultivate the blue lotus....
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:54 am

Your sleep is typically regulated by a bunch of chemicals, such as melatonin and adenosine. Cytokines also affect sleep, and occur when you're sick (less likely to be at play here). There's one more chemical that's very important that I can't remember... I think it also starts with an M and it gets released when you wake up (to counter melatonin).

Any oneirogen will be affecting these or mimicking their action (and in other ways).

Thanks for the links.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby RocketeerJim » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:09 pm

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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Unclejack » Tue May 24, 2011 10:16 am

I would like to add some of my experience with the "vibrations" and gravitational swirl.
I always related and explained it to my friends using a clock. I always say take the "second hand" (this word sounds really weird to me) and start at 12 'o Clock, follow the pointer with your entire head (so turn the angle of your neck to line up your head with the hand) and when you reach 5 past or 10 past the hour, immediately jump back to 12 and start "moving" to 5/10 past again. Keep repeating this and faster than the normal seconds and voila, there is the idea I get about the gravitional swirl. Interesting to note is that there seems to be some kind of magnetic attrection to the right side, I do not know what it is but there is something that just wants to turn to the right, and when you go to far it's like that your own body reacts and says something like: go back and sit straight you moron! It feels really automatic and "programmed".

Interesting to note is that I have experienced this feeling in 4 out of 6 salvia "experiences" (possibly indicating I did not achieve a stage 3 or higher experience) and I occasionally get this feeling when I take a good hit of MJ when tired, it can also occur as side effects and after effects of a small N2O trip. Some people relate it to the feeling you get when you are drunk, lie down on a bed or so and start watching the ceiling. This indeed presents a similar idea like the one described above, but with the added unpleasant feeling and sick making/throwing up like feeling. Also the automatic and "programmed" feeling tends to disappear.

Curious to say that I did indeed experience it with a good hit of MJ, N20 and keeping salvia inhaled as long as possible, which all require you to keep air inhaled with a low level of oxygen. I have also linked the possibilty of oxygen deprivation to this feeling, but when inhaling in and out of a balloon for something like 45 seconds, I do not really experience this swirl feeling at all, not even when I was a little bit intoxicated by alcohol. I do however feel light in my head and annoying/stressed coupled with the feeling I should lie down and catch my breath. So perhaps there is some truth in ChemistKen's theory.

As with my experiences related to the vibration feeling with Salvia: the most I ever got was seeing the world and room where I was, moving around like a cog-wheel that was clogged. It kept resetting after turning just a bit. It felt like it was also moving over my lower left-arm like a wheel that was rolling up and down. I also had the idea two of my best friends were sitting in front of me. I could not actually see people but I had this idea they would appear faintly and dark somewhere behind the realistic world or wall in front of me, staring at me without moving, however these two friends were not present at all during that day.

Also something I find a bit ackward. All of the times I have smoked Salvia I started to produce a huge amount of saliva. I even start to drool most of the times and I end up drooling on the ground/clothes or the bong itself. Pretty nasty tbh. Anyone else experiencing this?
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Tue May 24, 2011 3:57 pm

That type of movement is described as oscillation. See this as an example of simple oscillation (middle column): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s ... f_patterns

That feeling is "the spins." I get it off of cannabis/alcohol, and it usually makes me vomit. When I get it from salvia it doesn't make me sick. I think it has something to do with inner ear fluid/balance, but I don't know.

The drool would occur simply because you're not swallowing and you're leaving your mouth open... I'm not sure if salivation is a symptom of ADH suppression, but it could be so for you. If you lay on your back it would probably not be noticeable, although you would have to be prone to one hit trips, which is my preference.
Anything that I post is fictional and is purely part of my imagination. Do not attempt any of the activities described above.
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