fallen leaves, advise for newbie

The different ways to consume/use Salvia divinorum and other entheogens, personal rituals, and trip reports.

Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Fri May 28, 2010 10:43 am

It always lasts the same. My peak is usually around 3-5 minutes. It goes by so quickly ='(

Anyways, I take the same dose (mg calculated by concentration and weight of the sample) regardless of what concentration I'm using. If it's 80x, it's just a much smaller amount. I really want a bong because smoking out of little pipes is terribly harsh and difficult to one hit (you start tripping before you're done smoking). It's really hard for me to do it off a little pipe, I mean I can, it's just not as effective nor comfortable.

The most efficient attempt I ever had, although I took too much (blacked out for most of it), was with a double perc, 15" bong and I took two breaths. The first one was a huge drag but I didn't clear it, then I put my hand on top while I held what I had and then exhaled. Then I quickly cleared it (the pipe was solid milky white) and right when the smoke left the pipe, I was GONE. I have footage of that one, for personal reflection. I find the part about how quickly it hit me is pretty amazing. On this attempt (I call it "the time when I overdosed on salvia"), I was severely intoxicated (happy drunken feeling) for about 20-30 minutes, even though I came down around 10 minutes or so.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby jasonsalvia » Fri May 28, 2010 11:54 am

I agree with that, I smoke out of small wooden pipe from Thailand, its harsh. I inhale as much as I can, wait 30 seconds and exhale. I take 3 hits usually, during the 3rd hit I start losing the old world and quickly hand the pipe over to the sitter for lack of normal vision, lay down and let go (lights off, good music on).

It sounds like a good idea to invest in a decent glass water bong, gonna think about that myself...
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Fri May 28, 2010 5:20 pm

I am not a fan of multiple hit salvia trips (I've done it two or three times). If you can't get a trip off of a single hit, you're doing something wrong (probably just smoking a low concentration).
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby jasonsalvia » Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

Little acrylic new ice bong. Smoooooth smoken. The Calea Zacatechichi dreamers blend was now a pleasure to smoke...
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby jasonsalvia » Sat May 29, 2010 6:44 pm

jasonsalvia wrote:Little acrylic new ice bong. Smoooooth smoken. The Calea Zacatechichi dreamers blend was now a pleasure to smoke...


pics:

Image

Image
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Sat May 29, 2010 11:23 pm

Nice! It looks like it's just a single perc, is that true?

If you like reggae, check this song out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG_7fXoP7k8
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby jasonsalvia » Sun May 30, 2010 10:55 am

Ulmdorgr wrote:Nice! It looks like it's just a single perc, is that true?

If you like reggae, check this song out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG_7fXoP7k8


I'm not too knowledgeable of bong terminology. Single perc means having a separate chamber that filters the smoke I think?
If so, then yes, it gets filtered through 5 holes into the small ice chamber.

I smoked salvia with it last night, I used half the normal amount and got twice as high. Totally smooth smoking man, very powerful trip was looking at my hand and it was glowing red, too crazy to put into words...

Love the song man!!!!!! perfect for this sunny day...

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Image
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Sun May 30, 2010 4:24 pm

Very nice! Yes, bong rips of salvia are the only way to trip effectively. If you're busy loading multiple bowls, the effects are already wearing off.

My friends get the terminology incorrect, so I've been using it wrong as well lately. You are right. A regular bong has no percs, but still runs the smoke through water (thus, some consider that to be the first perc). Since yours has a separate chamber, it has one real perc, but could be considered a double perc (smoke through the bottom water, then up through the first real perc).

Cool nonetheless. What was the price of yours?

Still using red level?

I have had very little open eye visuals occur, besides the gravitational swirl or liquidized vision with electric vibrations. Nothing color or light intensity related.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby RocketeerJim » Sun May 30, 2010 4:27 pm

Not to butt in, but I'm curious if I can identify with your "gravitational swirl" reference. Would you please describe that for me? I may have experienced it myself.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Sun May 30, 2010 4:32 pm

It's probably the most commonly described initial visual/feeling. I say gravitational because a lot of people feel themselves falling to one side, or sinking into the couch or floor.

For me, I get an onion-skinning-like visual where my vision rotates about 6 degrees to the right and then oscillates back to the starting point. It does this rapidly for the duration of the experience, but sometimes takes other forms (like a pulsation through my body). Here's a better way to visualize it: take your left hand and place it out in front of you, palm away from your body. Twist your hand to the right as far as it will go, then quickly return it to its starting point. Do this over and over, and watch the gaps between your fingers. That illusory motion blur is what I see, but it comes off of ALL objects.

It's been a while since I've seen it, but it's not foreign to me.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby RocketeerJim » Mon May 31, 2010 11:05 am

Yes, that's it. On all four of my "experiences" (all of them in the last three days) I've felt myself being pulled so strongly to the right that I could not even sense my weight on my feet as I moved about - as if gravity had shifted.

Prior to that, I feel myself merging with, invariably, a brick wall which I sense is a part of a school building. I don't simply squash into the wall but rather I hear a distinct pulsing sound and with each pulse I sort of unfold like one of those Chinese fans. My body splays out. And it feels like my face is especially flattened. Every time, as I merge into the wall I fear for my loved ones or, rather, lament that I will not get to say goodbye to them or to warn them of what follows (the rotational effect)

As for the rotational effect, I see a sort of spinning vortex (imagine the view of a hurricane from up above like the National Weather Service puts on the news - except turned on its side and oriented on your right, approaching you, spinning counter-clockwise, from there) that approaches me from the right, moves from my lower right across me to my upper left and envelops me as it passes. When it does I am surrounded by the swimming/rotating pattern of colors. The surfaces of solid objects swim with this pattern as well. The paint texturization on my drywall, newly awash with the vivid color pattern, starts to melt and flow like wax. And beyond the vortex, as it approaches me from the right, I can see only blackness. Thus far I've been frightened by it and resisted the gravitational pull to the right so as to avoid being overtaken by it. I've even gotten up from my chosen "staging place", moved to other rooms, closed a door behind me so as to cut off the pull, all to no avail. It goes where I go. This must, I suppose, be the "Wave".

I've been reading a lot of comments on the UTube Salvia videos looking for others who've shared these aspects of their experiences. Some say that you should not resist and that if you go to the right, into the "black hole" as some call it or the "vortex" as I term it, a journey to a new world awaits.

I can understand why oral ingestion of SD, leading to longer experiences and presumably longer peaks, might give one an opportunity to explore much further and deeper than one could by smoking it. I think I want to try that.

When viewing the U-Tube vids (and yes I am downgrading them as I watch them) I also listen carefully to what the participants say during their experiences, looking for - and sometimes finding - signs that others have experienced what I have experienced. Some have talked about sensing the presence of someone or something. I'm not sure I'm not inventing that memory but it seems that all four times, after my peak, as I am becoming part of consensual reality again, I have a very strong feeling that I am leaving another world, that I have been spotted there by someone, that they say something (to me?) just as I am about to come out of it, and that I must go back to that world! A part of me wants to do Salvia daily but I am aware others are more cautious and prefer to wait weeks or even months between experiences.

Here's a real hoot: I have not touched any Cannabis since my second experience. I did smoke it right after my first experience. I didn't get high at all but the guy I was sharing the joint with was plastered by the budder-soaked paper with some fine Sativa in it.
Now I don't seem to have much desire for Cannabis. I've been smoking Budder for about six months now and really like it but for some reason my desire has waned.

OMG, Jason I'm sorry I seem to have hijacked your thread. My bad! I'm forgetting my manners.
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby Ulmdorgr » Mon May 31, 2010 11:52 am

Yeah, salvia will help sever addiction, even if its light. Don't worry about "hijacking" threads; the content here is all mixed up.

You're starting to get into the subjective realms that are very overwhelming and complicated, but you'll get used to it quickly.

The vortex or tunnel (mine has been straight forward lately) is the path to ego death. This is experienced differently for everyone, but for me, I basically get paralyzed by salvia (analgesic effects of KOR stimulation), so I can't run away. Then (and this has only happened once; it's very intense and only occurs if you are really attached to everything in this world), my memories started to fly by me in strange ways, but I also started to forget about everything else, I felt like I was trapped as I was being sucked down, which was very scary, but refreshing. My setting was poor because the lighting in the room caused a nightmarish face to be present, making me feel like there were demons or something, but that wasn't scarring or anything, it was just a fractal imaginative extrapolation of the wall I could see in my peripheral. So when I came out of this, from my dark entombment, I felt extremely liberated and thankful to be alive. I had tears in my eyes as I described to everyone how beautiful everything was (my afterglow may never be experienced again).

My "ego death" occurred when I no longer existed; within the trappings, I no longer could remember what this world was like, or if it even existed. There was just the vortex of images and memories. I say memories because I saw what I claim to be myself bouncing a basketball, but it was a 2D cartoon-like version, so it's difficult to say.

The wall is also a recurring theme. The first time I heard about it was from a friend I was sitting for. He was laying face down, because he rolled over, and the sleeping bag we had out on the ground had a checkered or plaid design. Thus, I felt like his vision of "bricks" were based on what he was staring at. He felt like he was one of the bricks, and he saw an alien being pushing him into the slot in the wall. This was also in space, where the wall extended for eternity. After coming out of the trip, he felt like _i_ was the alien, and he was skeptical of my allegiance to him (ahah), as if I were trying to get him to smoke salvia so I could push him into the brick wall.

For me, the wall is a cellular membrane, like a fabric with honeycomb shaped holes in it. However, it's multidimensional. I've seen the world unravel within a single cell, and each cell of the membrane contained a different universe. Each cell also rotates, which gives it a kaleidoscopic feel to it. The wall is a boundary between various things; spacial locations, periods of time, and the "spirit realm." When you pass through the wall, your mind's eye will get a glimpse into the infinite. Here's a good image: when you do salvia, you get to push your head through the fabric of reality and look straight into god/infinite/death/astral plane/etc. You can't go all the way, because you're not dead yet. You are anchored here, and at the whim of the pharmacology of salvinorin A.

Then we come to the beings. This is the hardest psychedelic archetype to grasp, and often makes people who describe them to sound like schizophrenics. This occurs from various psychedelics: McKenna describes his elves on psilocybin, people describe reptilian people on LSD, they see people through DMT, and we see them through salvia. I have many theories about this, but they are all great, because they get us thinking. We also have these images in our heads that if we could put on paper, we would seem amazing. I have a draft of one, but I haven't worked on it for a while.

Even within a specific chemical, the beings can vary from person to person. A friend of mine sees them every time he trips, and they are clothed in white. I've only seen mine once, and they were statue-like, translucent skinned, naked, male-like humanoids. I was in space, and I floated over this simple structure and landed on the edge of it. It looks like a question mark without gaps (take one, flip it horizontally, then put it next to the other and connect the dot to the main stem at the bottom '??'). The structure had a brick-like pattern along it. I was standing on one surface, and these beings were as well. I felt like I was special, as if I was not one of them, just in awe. I got to see them up close, but it wasn't lucid, but it was much like a dream, but clearer. VERY clear. My dreams are hazy (I just woke up from a dream, so I can compare). Anyways, it was very spectacular, and the structure seemed to be pointing at the sun, like a magnifying glass. I call it "the diving board of consciousness" because I felt like I was a soul that had returned to its astral self, and by flying through this mechanical structure and into the sun, I would be transformed back into my incarnation via the energy of the star. The trip ended before I could move from my position on the structure. I forgot to say, the beings were paired along the edge. I was the only odd being out. Based on my position (the bottom of the stem, '?'), it felt like a royal procession, like they were guards and I was to walk down the brick and jump through the hole. Anyways, most of this is an inference of the situation, and nothing too literal.

And finally (I would have brought this up earlier), there's the sounds. I hear people when I'm on salvia that welcome me back. They chant a song, and as a musician I usually begin chanting it as well (which is very creepy to my sitters). Last time, it felt like they were sending my worldly body back home, so the chant was "<name> is going home" and I sat there patting my legs and singing as I returned to this realm. When I get into this area of experience, it is more like my dreams - very hazy, I see vague things that I can barely remember. For most people that I know, they don't know the origin of the chanting, and they usually can't understand it. If they can, they usually think it is stupid and then forget it (DO NOT FORGET IT; it's important for all of us to come to conclusions about each others' experiences related to our own). McKenna described a sound, part of the wall (similar to salvia's) of DMT, when passing through to the other side. Some say it sounds like a buzz, or a fan. I've never had that feeling.

This was a huge rant... there's also a mechanical feeling (as if the wall is being rotated and controlled by some sort of engine). The wall can also be like a carpet being rolled up (I haven't had that feeling but I can imagine why; imagine the vortex + the brick wall at the same time). Uh... and the afterglow can be nice =)
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby RocketeerJim » Mon May 31, 2010 3:15 pm

That's very heavy. Fascinating and yet somehow familiar. Thank you for sharing that with me.

I know these experiences have to be individually felt. I do appreciate your sharing it with me in detail because, well, because I want to know what others see - to help me make sense of the experience. Is there another dimension and are there beings there that can observe and interact with us? Can they do so only when we use substances like Salvia? Or can they always see us and only when we use such substances may we see/hear them?

Taken another step further, was this remarkable Salvia Divinorum plant, which grows naturally only in such an isolated area, somehow placed there intentionally in the ancient millenia to foster such interaction? Sounds crazy, I know, but not so crazy as it did before I had my experiences. It is all so real, so vivid, so overwhelming.

You mention the sounds and I have something to offer there as well: As I'm going throught the rhythmic moulding into the wall I can hear a sound that reminds me of someone, myself even, saying something like "yyyyyump, yyyump, yyyump" in a 3/3 beat that seems to keep exact pace with the rhythmic "unfolding of the fan" (me) I spoke about re: the wall. It does not sound mechanical to me . . . in fact it may really be me making the sound, grunting as I react to the rhythmic flattening.

These last three days have been so amazing! I'm glad I looked to the 'net for like minded people and found this site!

I guess I must pass that threshold somehow. Maybe after a few more experiences I'll settle down into it a bit better. Thus far, I carry very little of my insights from one experience into the next. I simply do not retain the information while on Salvia. I'll try to work on that.

Ego death. What a concept. Actually sounds kind of nice, so long as it is temporary. :)

I just noticed your post on the other thread directing me here.

Well I suppose tripping in the room I keep travelling to would be nice since it is somewhat dark and has an entertainment system in it. On the other hand, it is the furthest room in the house from where I have been taking my hits and I feel like I've been going there to escape the vortex rather than to embrace it.

BTW I've seen many people in YouTube vids telling newbies "hold it in until your vision starts to vibrate". I don't recall my vision vibrating. Have you experienced that?
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby ChemistKen » Mon May 31, 2010 4:16 pm

Their "vibrating vision" may be more of a lack of oxygen thing then the sally....
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Re: fallen leaves, advise for newbie

Postby RocketeerJim » Mon May 31, 2010 4:26 pm

Hi Ken!

Do you really think so? They're only holding their breath for 10-30 seconds. Interesting notion, though.

Having read our exchange here and especially our accounts of our experiences, do you have any comments to add? Similarities, differences or subtle clues to understanding the wonders of this experience?
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