Tired after Salvia

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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby nothim » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:20 pm

Ex, u cool ?!

i did not understand this
Wiser and cooler words were never spoken.,
and this, truly wiser than he ought to be for his age:
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby RocketeerJim » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:18 pm

wiser than he ought to be for his age = has more wisdom than one would expect to find in someone who is so young as he (is).
Life is short and you only get one. It is yours so use it selfishly. Find your true path and follow it. Be true to your own convictions. And love each other.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Eximius » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:12 pm

Hey everyone: Thanks for the PMs and the words of encouragement. All systems are still 'go', and the countdown continues. 'Blast-off' time will take place once my young little princess has turned in for the night. On another note... I've just finished watching an interesting video that while it is not specifically about this subject, it is in many, many ways inter-related to it.

If you have an hour to kill, then, may I suggest checking it out? and let me know your thoughts about it. Here is the link:

http://bit.ly/hArzOW
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Dude » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:44 pm

First Off Thanks to all for responding with your suggestions and questions.
My interest in Entheogens began with watching Terrance McKenna on You-Tube, may his spirit be having a fantastic journey , then a few books worth reading "DMT the Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman, "Beyond the Brain, by Stanislav Groff, "Tryptamine Palace, by James Oroc( although I don't think that is his real name). All of these books speak to the fact that there are " other" realities out there,and what we experience may just be a "slice" of reality. I have taken LSD years ago,and had that very real feeling that there is more "out there" than what consensual reality would lead us to believe. In my " Golden Years" I am all too aware that my existence in this demension is eminant , and in preperation I want to have a glimpse of the "other",and to recognize and accept it when the time comes, I think Salvia may have something to offer in this Quest.
RocketeerJim;
I am lucky to have a wife who is a master gardener, The one plant is thriving, and I will be getting more when the weather moderates.
I do have pleanty of plain leaf, and some 5x,10x, and 20x, I am going into this slowly so the x stuff will wait for a while.

Ulmdorgr; can you recommend a good quality scale that is not too expensive?
I agree with you about "recording" your experiences , and from my few times using Salvia I know that words fail, and Art is a valuable tool in the Salvia dimension.It's like how do you describe the color Orange ? My first times with Ska Pastora I felt like I needed to describe what I was "seeing" only to realize that it is indescribeable.
Regarding tripping to the end, I have read that when Aldous Huxley was dieing his wife injected him with a massive dose of LSD. Probably for pain relief, but also to aid him on his journey.

DAN G, I prefer " Vintage", not "old".

Eximius, I'm just across the pond from you, on the Olympic Peninsula. I hope that you have a good experience . You are lucky to have a partner who will be your "sitter" . I believe that the best sitters are those who have "been there", so after you have had the Salvia experience you will be a good sitter for her. Be aware that (from my limited experience) Salvia comes on so fast that you are not aware of it. The few times that I have smoked the plain leaf I was saying to myself "hmmm, nothing happening yet, so another toke on the Bong",and then I'm in the "other". Please post your experience.

HA, I just thought of that old saying" A mind is a terrible thing to waste" going to have to look up who said that and what was meant. But I believe that all who experience Salvia understand.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Ulmdorgr » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:54 pm

nothim: "Wiser and cooler words were never said" means that you speak the truth, and I like it.

----------------------------

Jim: definitely. It will be quite a while before I get the chance to travel your way.

----------------------------

Ex: let us know how it goes. Don't get anxious, there's no need. Relax! Everything will be okay.

Also for everyone's education, when you see a bit.ly link, which is a way for people to shorten URLs, copy the URL into a new window or tab of your browser and append a "+" symbol at the end. This will take you to the link's statistic page and show you the actual URL it leads to, in case you're skeptical of its legitimacy (shortened URLs often point to viruses/malware and phishing scams). So for Ex's link you go to http://bit.ly/hArzOW+ and it shows the url he pointed to is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Z8CqAiYI8 (BBC Horizon (2011) - What is Reality? (complete, uncut))

----------------------------

Dude: I had a dream recently where I was invited to Terrence's birthday party (and he was still alive), and Rick Steves was going to go, too. It was quite entertaining.

I don't want to stop you from exploring, but Salvia is very hit or miss, and in an unpredictable way. My two most amazing experiences were on completely different doses: one was from 8x on a bong with technically 3 percolators (2 plus the basin; this was my 6th trip), and one was from 80x on a steamroller (this was my 13th or 14th trip). Both were completely different, but gave me strong visions that I've been able to record with words and images.

Don't be discouraged if you end up with nothingness, fractals, strange faces/beings, strange messages, or hypnogogic-like imagery (people holding hands in retina-burn like colors, little detail, etc.).

I'm working on a drawing concerning a model for 4-Dimensional paths of objects. What I mean is, salvia sometimes lets us see things in terms of our lifespan. We can literally see the selves we've left behind or are looking forward to, if only moments away in either direction. So, basically we live a chain of moments, each their own universe, within 4-Dimensional reality. I'm not sure what 5-dimensions would look like on paper...

Tip for salvia: after taking the hit, get in your place of tripping (sitting position or laying position) and just hold your breath and wait. Have your sitter watch the clock to see how long it has been. At the 1 minute mark, the sitter should ask if you can speak. If you can reply coherently, you are not in the trance. If its part of your plan, you should take a second hit if it's already prepared (loading a bowl while high is often difficult for me because of impairment and I like to talk a lot).

I've never purchased a scale, and I didn't save the results of my last searches, so I'll start over for you. I've never purchased a scale and I don't know brands so it's going to be hit or miss. I have used personal scales of lower quality, so I think anything over $50 will be very high quality, but who knows. The prices I give do not include shipping.

Super cheap scale, but not precise enough for salvia use (10mg increments): http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Si ... 390&sr=1-3 (~$13)

Here's one, but it's almost twice as much as the cheap one I once found (1mg increments):
http://balance.balances.com/scales/9 (~$150)

This one is rated to 2mg, hopefully not 2mg increments (it probably measures in 2mg increments), but would probably do quite well:
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/jenni ... svg20.aspx (~$75)

Oh my god. This is it, the super cheap, awesome scale we should all have for salvia (I don't know if it works well, but its advertised rating and price is perfect):
http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Ge ... 449&sr=1-5 ($25 + shipping)
Anything that I post is fictional and is purely part of my imagination. Do not attempt any of the activities described above.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby DanG » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:09 pm

@Ex
Thanks for the video. I enjoy videos like that :) Eons better than dumb tv shows.

@Ulmy:
bit.ly is so techie and modern lol. Feels like i'm a caveman with a computer.
About memory. It's difficult to even visualize the strange images during the trips. There's no way to describe it really. It goes to show that we haven't reached the peak of true intelligence because there's still a ton that we don't understand.
Damn those person/place/thing/event merged together into something.


@Village *ahem* vintage people
It's really nice that people your age are still eager to seek and learn! I admire you for that!
You guys are young at heart :)
I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free.
-Nikos Kazantzakis

Use Your Cellphone Camera for Close-up/Macro Photography
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Eximius » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:37 am

Well, here it is: It was beautiful yet incomprehensible. According to my travel assistant it only lasted 4 minutes and 45 seconds, but felt longer. I cannot describe it yet. We did tape the experience and will post additional details once I get to hear whatever it is I said. I can't say much else at this point...Aside from profuse sweating and tingling in my feet, I feel only slighlty lightheaded. I'll continue later.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby nothim » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:33 am

thank you,
sorry for not being able to keep up with you ........
i am just blasted away for a few moments!!
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Dude » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:16 am

Eximius wrote:Well, here it is: It was beautiful yet incomprehensible. According to my travel assistant it only lasted 4 minutes and 45 seconds, but felt longer. I cannot describe it yet. We did tape the experience and will post additional details once I get to hear whatever it is I said. I can't say much else at this point...Aside from profuse sweating and tingling in my feet, I feel only slighlty lightheaded. I'll continue later.


EXIMIUS, What was your method and dose?
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Dude » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:18 am

Ulmdogr
Thanks for the info , I'll look into that.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Eximius » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:32 pm

I planned for this for almost two weeks. At first, I thought about how the night would unfold. I’d go out on the yard and sit on the lounger, burn some incense, play some sort of meditating music, stare into the sky and wait for whatever was going to happen to unravel.

In the end, I did none of these things. I did not fast either, but ate very little throughout the day, and probably due to my anticipation, I hardly felt any hunger at all. At around 10pm or so, I turned all the lights off in the house and sat down on the floor of my daughter’s playroom. My eyesight quickly adjusted to the light emanating from the moon, which shone brightly through the large windows on each side of it.
I provided my bride with instructions on what to do, and she sat quietly on a corner waiting for me to tell her when I’d begin. I did not play any music, nor did I burn any incense. I simply sat in the middle of the room and meditated for almost an hour, and repeatedly said a ‘prayer’ I had constructed earlier in the week, basically asking for the experience to open and straighten my mind, my heart and my thoughts, and then I did it.

I took my first toke, (10x), I'm not a smoker and this was my first time using a water pipe, hence I was unable to hold it in for more than five seconds or so. I immediately took another toke and as I held the smoke in, I put the pipe down and slowly counted till twenty before releasing it. I felt a bit strange, and just as I decided to take another toke, a sensation or tingling began to creep up my back. It felt as if I was being massaged from the bottom of my spinal chord and up towards the back of my neck. Then suddenly, I felt as if these wing-like appendages were protruding from me. I couldn’t see them but I could definitely feel them, and then I started levitating, but I wasn’t flying, at least not in the sense of flapping my newly acquired ‘wings’ through the air. I actually felt as if I was being lifted up off the ground by hands? I can’t really explain it.

I attempted to feel the ground looking for the water pipe, but then realized I was no longer in the room and found myself elsewhere. At first I thought I was dreaming, but it all felt so freaking real! These things or creatures were leading me through an avenue of sorts, and to my right side this brightly lit bluish colored being kept ‘telling’ me to look around. No actual words were being spoken; it was as if I could hear ‘her’ inside my head. I don’t know how else to explain this. I also don’t know why I refer to this being as female. That’s just how ‘she’ felt to me.

I looked around as I kept floating down this road or street or whatever it was. All around me were these multicolored structures, however none of them looked anything like the geometric patterns others talk about. I wasn’t seeing any squares, or triangles or fast moving multicolored crystals. These were more like round or cylindrical type buildings of some sort, each one in different colors. I could feel other beings with me, but couldn’t really see them, but rather felt them as if they were greeting me all at once. All the while the bluish female figure kept asking me to go on and take it all in.

At one point I began to feel a little worried and felt it was best for me to return home, as I did not want to make my wife worry about me being gone for so long, but the blue colored being kept asking me to continue on. I asked to slow down a bit, (even though I did not feel as if I was being rushed in any way), and I was told to go ahead and to feel around. I then started waving my hands in the air in an attempt to steady or ground myself and noticed that my hands, and for that matter my entire body was surrounded by these tiny little concentric circles of yellow and orange light, which were moving incessantly all around me. Picture if you will, a succession of tiny little ants walking on a trail. That’s what they looked like. It was just amazing.

I again said it was time for me to go back, but was asked once more to keep going on a little further. I felt as if there was something else that ‘she’ wanted to show me, but I hesitated and expressed my desire to return home. I then felt the end of the experience coming to an end. It took place gently, and I could feel myself here and there at the same time. At one point I actually saw myself sitting there on the floor of my daughters playroom, and I could see the back of my shirt, and then I felt the carpet floor beneath me.

I did not feel as if I waking from a dream at all but did feel a bit woozy and then realized that I wanted to go back and see some more. I told my wife I wanted to take another hit, and see whatever it was ‘she’ wanted to show me, and I tried to explain to her there was something else there for me to experience, but my wife was worried and a bit frightened, and asked me to instead wait till later, as she did not feel it’d be a good idea for me to smoke again so soon.

I understood how she might have felt and did not want to freak her out and so that was it. We stayed up until 2:30 in the morning, talking about the whole thing and going over the recording and writing down every word I said. Here is the transcript:

-OK there it goes
-I feel it in the back of my neck
-Hey…Ok
-Wow, I feel like…
-…I’m trying to talk but I can’t, wait, it’s a little better now.
-Who are they?
-Ok, ok, ok I don’t want to scare _____(I say my wife’s name)
-Holy cow….oooooh. Yeah, this is good. Beautiful. I don’t want to scare _____
-Wait, wait, wait.
-Wow, this is awesome, my goodness, this is… wow, wait, why can’t I just….. alright.
-I’ll just wait until it all goes away. I’ll just wait.
-It sounds funny. I want to laugh. It makes me feel happy.
-Okay, okay.
-Thank you very much, thank you.
-Wow…
-It’s like I know it is not there but it is! Wow, I feel like it is there.
-I don’t want to laugh…
-Don’t’ worry
-It’s so beautiful; it makes me almost want to cry. I’ve never seen anything like it.
-How can this be possible? How can I explain this?
-They’re not going to believe me. NO WAY!
-I’m trying. This is just a dream, but it is not. Wait, wait, slow down.
-I thought I need another, but I guess…
-I don’t. Holy cow…this is amazing
-What is this? I’m not going to ask.
-There really is another dimension to my hands. Look at all this going around it. It’s just…wow
-How can there be another space? This is just so beautiful. This is what is like.
-Thank you
-I still don’t have any answers, but man, this is amazing.
-I want to put my hands down but I…wow
-I wanna laugh, but I don’t want to wake anybody up, my daughter is sleeping
-Alright, I think it has been long enough. I thought I was going to be only a minute, but I gotta get back now.
-Ok, ok
-Bring me back, ok.
-Holy cow. Look.
-I’m sweating so much!

(End of transcript).

The recording, from beginning to end lasted almost 6 minutes. But I felt as if I was gone much, much longer.

And so there it is. My first salvia, and for that matter, my first psychedelic experience. It was beautiful to say the least, and at no point did I feel it was a bad thing. I did not feel threatened by anything or 'anyone' through it, and despite all the things I felt and witnessed, I don't feel any urge or desire to do it again anytime soon.

Thanks again for everyone's guidance and support.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Ulmdorgr » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:41 pm

Smoking is like meditating. You don't get used to it, you just relax and don't rush it. Learn to inhale slowly and gently. Drink water before hand so your throat isn't dry. Many of the smokers I know have amazing lung capacity, which seems to undermine the whole "smoker's lung" effect.

Two issues I can see inhibiting your experience:
-Fear
-Love

This is one of the problems with tripping while you're older. Most psychonauts write from a bachelor's point of view, often independent of emotional attachment. With a mate, your trip must include them. It makes salvia even less effective, because salvia is ALL about you. Your trip, your deaths, your new lives, your soul, etc. In the back of your head, your obsessions/attachments, loves, desires, etc. will impede your ability to explore. However, the initial even that you had should help you to realize your commitment to this reality and to life. You wish to cherish your time with others. Now you've been able to experience without them. Remember, you're practicing dying: changing, moving on. You don't always have a choice when under the influence of a chemical. Salvia is very strong. She will take over. Some effects of other chemicals lets you shape your experience to some degree, this does not. As such, you have first hand experience with lack of control. Stuff like "I'm scared for my wife... Wait, slow down!" Are examples of this lack of control. So what I'm trying to say is: learn to understand what truth it has shown you: that you don't want to leave your family, and new things are overwhelming.

Psilocybin, LSD, and MDMA are better chemicals for sharing an experience with someone else, even if they're sober.
Anything that I post is fictional and is purely part of my imagination. Do not attempt any of the activities described above.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby RocketeerJim » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:16 pm

Wow! Your account certainly described what I would call a mild, gentle and most enjoyable trip. Nothing at all like the gut-wrenching experience my first SD trip was. Congratulations are in order! You seem to have found your appropriate dose. If I have any wisdom at all to offer to you it would be that, due to your several references to not wanting to scare (shall I guess who?) . . . and your bride's trepidation at the prospect of your continuing on immediately with another hit, I would give her some time to adjust and to conclude that you are truly alright before revisiting this special place in her presence. Failing in that, I'd either find another, SD-experienced sitter or consider going "solo" to avoid being held back by a concern for her concern for you. No offense to your obviously supportive bride intended but, given the comfort you seem to have experienced diring your trip you might as well have had no sitter at all. if you could take your concern for her out of the equation . . . . On the other hand, since she's already seen you in that state, perhaps SHE could set YOUR mind at ease before the next excursion, whenever that might be.

Kudos to you for a successful roundtrip! And congratulations on your choice of lifemates.

Okay, forgive my curiosity, but I wonder where you would place your subjective first experience on the following scaleo that I've shamelessly pirated from http://www.sagewisdom.org/faq.html:

[c]The SALVIA Experiential Rating Scale[/c]

Level -1 "S stands for SUBTLE effects." A feeling that "something" is happening, although it is difficult to say just what. Relaxation and increased sensual appreciation may be noted. This mild level is useful for meditation and may facilitate sexual pleasure.

Level - 2 "A stands for ALTERED perception." Colors and textures are paid attention to. Appreciation of music may be enhanced. Space may appear of greater or lesser depth than is usual. But visions do not occur at this level. Thinking becomes less logical, and more playful; short term memory difficulties are may be noted.

Level - 3 "L" stands for LIGHT visionary state." Closed eye visuals (clear imagery with eyes closed: fractal patterns, vinelike and geometric patterns, visions of objects and designs). The imagery is often two dimensional. If open eyed visual effects occur these are usually vague and fleeting. At this level phenomena similar to the hypnagogic phenomena that some people experience at sleep onset occur. At this level visions are experienced as "eye candy" but are not confused with reality.

Level - 4 "V stands for VIVID visionary state." Complex three dimensional realistic appearing scenes occur. Sometimes voices may be heard. With eyes open contact with consensual reality will not be entirely lost, but when you close your eyes you may forget about consensus reality and enter completely into a dreamlike scene. Shamanistic journeying to other lands, foreign or imaginary; encounters with beings, entities, spirits; or travels to other ages may occur. You may even live the life of another person. At this level you have entered the shaman's world. Or if you prefer you are in "dream time." With eyes closed you experience fantasies (dream like happenings, with a story line to them). So long as your eyes are closed you may believe they are really occurring. This differs from the "eye candy" closed eye imagery, of level 3.

Level - 5 "I" stands for IMMATERIAL existence." At this level consciousness remains and some thought processes are still lucid, but one becomes completely involved in inner experience and loses all contact with consensual reality. Individuality may be lost; one experiences merging with God/dess, mind, universal consciousness, or bizarre fusions with other objects real or imagined, e.g. merging with a wall may be experienced. At this level it is impossible to function in consensual reality, but unfortunately some people do not remain still but move around in this befuddled state. For this reason a sitter is essential to ensure the safety of someone voyaging to the inner levels. To the person experiencing this, the phenomenon may be terrifying or exceedingly pleasant; but to an outside observer the individual may appear confused or disoriented.

Level 6 - "A stands for AMNESIC effects " At this stage either consciousness is lost; or at least one is unable to later recall what one is experiencing. The individual may fall, or remain immobile or thrash around; somnambulistic behavior may occur; injuries can be sustained without pain being felt; on awakening the individual will have no recollection of what he/she did, experienced or said in level 6. People cannot ever recall what they experience in this very deep trance state. This is not a sought after level as later nothing can be recalled of the experience.

I've grown accustomed to trying to relate each of my experiences to this scale and most of my experiences, after my first, have been lower on the scale than the first despite that I've used stronger extracts since then. Mayhaps "familiarity" colors my perception. . . .
Life is short and you only get one. It is yours so use it selfishly. Find your true path and follow it. Be true to your own convictions. And love each other.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby Eximius » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 pm

I agree with the comments and suggestions regarding issues of attachment and the like, and while I’m fully aware of these matters, I must mention that fear, at least in the physical sense, (as in being alone, in the dark, or even experiencing death) was never a factor for me. Otherwise, I probably never would have done it to begin with, right? And when it comes to being emotionally attached, the fact is that I’m not willing to just let go haphazardly.

I think we can all agree that ultimately, this is an individual experience, and I am indeed fortunate to have the support of my beloved spouse as I take on this new venture. Unfortunately, because of the way things are in my life at this point I am certain that if had gone to someone else within my circle to ask for their assistance, I’d probably be derided and even spurned for attempting something like this.

Believe me when I say that, prior to the start of all this a few months ago, I would have liked nothing more than to have been able to have found a shaman or at least speak to a mentor or fellow psychonaut. Thankfully, I was able to find something similar, and maybe even better. Of course I’m referring to people like you, whose experiences and words of advice have been instrumental in my undertaking.

As I’ve already informed my wife, I am looking forward to my next trip, and hopefully this time I will experience the ‘death of my ego’ or whatever it is they call it. It is very satisfying for me to know I will have her support whenever that time comes for me to this again, and I even dare to say that the way things seem right now, she might eventually join me. How great is that!

By the way, I did not feel tired at all after my trip, nor have I felt any negative physical or mental side effects such as headaches, nightmares and stuff like that. On the same note, I haven’t had any dreams about the experience either, at least, not ones I can remember.

Rocketeer Jim: Without any doubt, I’d rate my first experience as a ‘Level 4’, and I’m looking forward to taking to the next level (5).

I better sign off now, as it is a beautiful sunny day outside. I’m off to enjoying a nice walk/hike in the woods.
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Re: Tired after Salvia

Postby nothim » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:56 am

I’d probably be derided and even spurned for attempting something like this.


chaps, please can you translate this to me too ?

ok, i think i will outrun Ex with the experience and .......

i will go first, before him , with this death of the ego thing!!!!!!

in case i am not lol back soon, you lol know , i definetly experienced dying

so , in advance , i wish everyone an awe , a quality one, and an awesome Easter aswell !!!!!!!!!!!!!

who knows ......
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